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Rb 225 motor, Indian gp200 case, 5 speed gearbox. I have a 6 plate bgm 10 sring clutch I have installed. It drags really bad. Any ideas on how to fix it? I have the exact same clutch set up in another Indian GP case and it operates smooth and easy. This one is adjusted to the point where if it is adjusted any more the kickstart will not work. When I pull the clutch in and kick it slips as it should. It is very difficult to pull the clutch in. I did soak the plates before install. Gearbox shifts smooth rear hub spins as it should

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Check the clutch sprocket to spider height difference then make sure the center spider sits at least .007" higher than the sprocket (shim side).

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So I measured the height of the clutch spider/drive sprocket with a steel ruller on top and feeler gauge. It came to a .002 fit and a .004 did not fit. So it seems the only remedy is to have a machine shop take the appropriate amount of material of the bottom of the drive sprocket so the clutch spider sticks out the correct amount.  For $450 not including postage you would think BGM would have some sort of quality control. I'm pissed. Really pissed. I have 3 of the same clutch. One works,  two have the same  measurements. Two will need machined. 

Any other solution?

I will wait on a product review to see what options s I have

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I have a stack of Tino crowns sitting here with the same issue. I need to get off my lazy butt and get them turned down so they are actually usable. 

le sigh...

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2 hours ago, theageofindustry said:

I have a stack of Tino crowns sitting here with the same issue. I need to get off my lazy butt and get them turned down so they are actually usable. 

le sigh...

 

3 hours ago, Stu said:

So I measured the height of the clutch spider/drive sprocket with a steel ruller on top and feeler gauge. It came to a .002 fit and a .004 did not fit. So it seems the only remedy is to have a machine shop take the appropriate amount of material of the bottom of the drive sprocket so the clutch spider sticks out the correct amount.  For $450 not including postage you would think BGM would have some sort of quality control. I'm pissed. Really pissed. I have 3 of the same clutch. One works,  two have the same  measurements. Two will need machined. 

Any other solution?

I will wait on a product review to see what options s I have

Those sprockets are hardened steel (or at least should be) and need to be ground to match the spider. I have a local shop I use with a surface grinder for this kind of work. $25-50 I think last time I had this done.

 

If I was sitting on a lot of product like that I might be tempted to have them all done at once with matching spiders. Should bring the cost way down to modify. Or have TS ship new correctly machines ones 

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So what's the correct numbers? I did a search of the site and someone else had a clutch issue. The numbers people threw around then we're .005 and .007 

Anyone know beyond a shadow of a doubt? 

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Entry from Stickys (1 ed). I'm also not sure if this measurement (if we are talking the same thing) was too small how it would create clutch drag. It would lock up the rear sprocket. Maybe we are talking two different measurements....

 

IMG_3004[1].JPG

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Stu, How much cork movement do you have when the clutch is fully compressed? Sticky says you must have at least 1mm of free up and down movement on the ears of the cork clutch plates to avoid clutch drag. Check to see if one of the metal plates got bent during installation. If it's tweaked a little it will cause clutch drag. Definitely something I've had happen. Then I'd also check the metal clutch plate thicknesses. Maybe they slipped in a thicker plate by accident...

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1 hour ago, Aaron Hecker said:

Mike, I thought the measurement should be "no larger" than 0.1mm which equals 0.004"....

 

I tried that before and it ended up still dragging. Not sure if I had a fluke set up but once I got it to around .007" everything started moving like it should. I might have corrected another problem at the same time but there's no way to tell now.

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So the clutch spider spins freely. If I pull on the drive sprocket from behind and try to spin the spider, it drags badly. The clutch assembly rocks. Can this be remedied by a different thickness shim behind the clutch that sits on the gearbox endplate bearing? Well, I tried different shims. A .8 shim is a little better than a 1.2, I think, but it still rocks and drags . Could the brass bushing be machined incorrectly? What can I do?

20170603_174908.jpg

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Stu, If you are still having issues, set up the sprocket/clutch spider/bush with a metal ruler as shown in the pic above and see which surface is highest. If the clutch basket is highest then you should be good. Assemble as normal with the correct shim but without the chain on the rear sprocket. Torque the nut to spec. Does the rear sprocket spin freely relative to the clutch spider? Does the clutch spider spin easily separate from the rear sprocket? If yes to both, you should be good and you need to look at some of the other possible sources of clutch drag. If no, I would proceed as Mike and the Stickys manual suggests and remove a small amount of material from the rear sprocket. If the clutch spider is binding up I would look at the shim under the gear tree. I do not believe the thickness of that shim under the assembly affects the movement of the rear sprocket relative to the clutch bell. It should only change the height of the whole assembly relative to the gear tree bearing. Feel free to call me if you want to discuss....508 265-3197.

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Hey Aaron, thanks for the reply. I did not respond yet because I am still working on the issues and wanted to try a few things out. The issue is definitely the clutch sprocket has play or wobble. The spider is stable and spins freely till the clutch sprocket is pushed or pulled on. So i believe my issue is the brass bushing. Both bushings i have are the bgm fancy ones and came with the bgm clutches. I have 2 bgm new clutch cassettes (one unused one with 75 miles on it) and have swapped parts to try to find one with the tightest tollerance.  Neither work, both wobble. So I have ordered 2 indian gp brass clutch bushings to try out. I am guessig the BGM bushings are as accurate as their flywheel nuts. Waiting for the new idian gp bushings and will post results. 

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Stu, see if you can get hold of some Piaggio P200 bushes. Becoming harder and harder to find correctly fitting brass bushes, the used original box of bushes gets dug through regularly here.

A bad fitting bush can cause drag and lurching,fun stuff.  Bearings rule!

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28 minutes ago, dirtyhandslopez said:

Stu, see if you can get hold of some Piaggio P200 bushes. Becoming harder and harder to find correctly fitting brass bushes, the used original box of bushes gets dug through regularly here.

A bad fitting bush can cause drag and lurching,fun stuff.  Bearings rule!

This really goes to show the finish work isn't what it should be. Sucks that even if you spend several hundred dollars on quality parts you still have to "fix" them, but that's another rant all together (it has gotten better but not where it should be IMO).

That crown wheel and spider should be able to handle bearings. 

 

I agree with Darren. Bearings are where it's at. 

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Ha! I hear ya guys. If the Indian bushes don't work, I'll check on the p200. I'll also dig for the bearigs. 

I have a great review for a couple products coming up. Is it just that the European manufacturers look at the American market as a joke and unload older experimental versions with no recalls or not honoring warranties?  I don't blame our suppliers but collectively we should be able to twist arms. I am somewhat fearful of rocking the boat to hard. If a person is into performance parts, there are only a few manufacturers at this point. It would suck to get blackballed.  As in "we won't sell anything to you."

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I've asked my BGM rep if standard needle bearings are ok to use in their clutches. Will let you know if I get a response. Stu...I've wondered that same thing....dealt with too much crap recently to just be coincidence.....

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Man, have been telling anyone who will listen for years now, we get the bits that are only fit for the bin. It's not the dealers here fault, they are just moving boxes around...

 

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Sh#t. Thanks for looking into that for me. I'll get my indian bushings Friday and have a chance to install on Saturday morning. If it rocks and binds I will see what the dealer wants to do for me. I'm sure they will be fair.

Yup, starting to see we get the earliest versions of stuff because the Europeans refuse to accept old stuff and know to ask for the most recent versions of items that actually consistently work. Seen a lot of a$$ kissing on euro sites of how great parts are. Don't know what kind of deals our suppliers work out, but they should be able to send back crap that doesn't work. And as for the hokey excuse of "this item is intended for the race track blah blah...." that might have worked in the late '80's but that's serious BS now. I just want a clutch I can put in an Rb and have it work correctly without having to experiment . ...asking to much? And people thought ScootRs was bad. 

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Try different orientations of spider to crownwheel, ie turn crown and keep the spider still and try again. Have had clutches where that makes a difference. Tolerances are a mofo. 

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Honestly,  a $450 clutch shouldn't need this kind of playing with. I have a third motor with a stock 4 speed I will try the cassette on and thenif iT still binds, I'm done. At this point I'm just keeping people informed rather than looking for an answer. We'll see. Thanks!

Tried the 3rd motor with the 4 speed. Still wobbles with finger pressure and binds the spider so it drags. I can't imagine I should go through the effort of putting it all back together and trying to run it again.  If I can create drag with finger pressure Im sure 18hp pulling on one side of the chain will create  a lot more... 

Done

20170611_113445.jpg

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