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Andrew ITA

150 LD MKII - Build thread...from rust to glory

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I'm new to the forum, just wanted to start a rebuild thread to show you what I'm up to and share some ideas.

Against my better judgement, about a year ago I bought a LD in desperate need of a restoration. I think the deciding factor for me was its history: it had mechanical problems and changed hands multiple times, ending up in a backyard,partially disassembled, for years.

This is not my first restoration, but I really couldn't resist the challenge: rust everywhere, wall paint spilled over, engine not turning, missing pieces and the seller tried to start a restoration and couldnt go past removing the sidepanels and carburettor. He was trying to show me that the engine was turning by stomping on a frozen kickstart lever. Spark plug was not there and the piston was frozen solid...I got so sad I stopped the guy and sealed the deal, cutting the asking price in half and calling the day.

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First of all the engine... few weeks ago I was able to test it, it required a lot of work and parts. Luckily I have family, friends and contacts in Italy so I was able to channel the parts I needed...and a lot of them.

Based on what I've analyzed, the engine run out of oil, the clutch disks melted, the gearbox overheated, ovalizing the bushings and grinding the teeth down. Never seen something that bad on a LD,

Quick list of what I had to do:

-New silentblocs

-All bearings and seals

-Had to rebore the bushing holes and custom-machine new bushings 

-Upgraded gearbox to newer type and re-shimmed

-Sent cylinder and crank to an old specialist in Italy for new rod, balancing, reboring to 57.4. Sourced a special 2 ring Meteor piston to match (appartently the Borgo, Asso and Vertex are all gone for that size w/16mm pin)

-Clutch plates (ALL), springs and actuating rod and cup

-Ignition and carb have been restored but not fitted. Instead I've fitted a Varitronic and a Dellorto 21mm modern carb.

If you are interested, I've created a step by step rebuild thread with tons of pictures here: http://www.scooterdepoca.com/forum/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=52211

Have a look at it, if interested I can translate it and post it here.

Some pics below

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It run great BUT it's wayyy to advanced. I've tried to retard it by moving the stator to the max, but unfortunately I can't get below 33 degrees advance. Double checked, triple checked...tried to fit a points ignition too, same result (even worse,can't get below 36). The bottomline is that the flywheel was keyed incorrectly on the crank. This is not the first time I hear about it with D/LDs. 

So I decided to carry out a mod. Took some measurements, cut out the ears and used another plate that came with the kit to create a precision jig. The plate had a different back design, but the same ear pattern.I will take it to a good TIG welder to have the ears welded in the correct position to get to 25 degree of advance, with the retaining bolts sitting in the center of the ears.

 

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Now onto the frame...another pain in the rear! Good news was that the fork, main tube and hump were all straight. However, the panels were beyond repair (bent, twisted and cancer rust everywhere)

So I've decided to straighten them and fix them as much as I can and set them aside for a future project. I don't have time to properly fix them at this time, I will in the future. So I reverted to a good quality set of repops and directing my energies to align the supports and gap the panels correctly.

 

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...and this is where I stand now. Alignment is 80% there but I need a few more tweaks:

-Right gaps are too tight: footboards to sidepanels and footboard to legshield - Catch 22 situation I need to think how to go about this...all suggestions are welcome!

-Right footboard edge is not perfectly aligned with legshield edge - I will need to move the footboard support inward

-Left footboard and gaps are ok, however it sits too low on the back. This is a pain, probably I will have to cut the support off and re-weld it higher

-Side panels gaps on the hump are ok but latching is difficult and the back reinforcements are twisting...need some welds to strengthen the area

 

This is a real PITA but it has to be done...the plan is to fix everything, dry build it, then disassemble it and have it sandblasted (where? still TBD, I don't know any places around here).

Frame and misc bits will be powder coated in Wimbledon White, while the legshield,footboards,fender,glovebox etc will be painted by me in my newly built DIY paint booth. Horncast and sidepanels will be red, I think candy apple over a gold base. 

 

 

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Great info here, I will be consulting your notes when I open my motor up next month. 

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1 minute ago, DISPLAY NAME said:

Great info here, I will be consulting your notes when I open my motor up next month. 

I'm glad it helps! Let me know if you need any suggestion! Are you going for a full engine rebuild?

In any case I can tell you which tools you absolutely need, the shaft-driven engines require some specialty tools (more so than the later chain driven models). There's no way around it so make sure you have all of them before starting anything

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EXCELLENT. Nice to see someone working with proper tools.

 

(LDs still kinda freak me out.)

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Wow! That’s a lot of good work. Outstanding!
Your work and photos are getting me hyped on starting back working on my LD project.
You said, This is not my first restoration? Do you have links to your other restoration projects.
I would really like to see them, especially the LD projects.
Great work dude!

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2 hours ago, Andrew ITA said:

I'm glad it helps! Let me know if you need any suggestion! Are you going for a full engine rebuild?

In any case I can tell you which tools you absolutely need, the shaft-driven engines require some specialty tools (more so than the later chain driven models). There's no way around it so make sure you have all of them before starting anything

Yes full rebuild, the gearbox is jumping out of first mostly, but there are other issues and I know how I am...

i really like this bike and feel it's worth doing the motor up properly. Also after looking at what you started with I feel lucky.

i will need that list of special tools. I've already made myself a flywheel holder, flywheel nut socket, and puller. 

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I enjoy how easy you demonstrate the Shaft Driven Lambretta engine rebuild :o. Have you built more than 1 of these types of engines? 

Mine took me forever to get all the gear lashings set. I think if I built about 4 or 5 of them, then I would have the chops to hammer them out. They are intense to build compared to a Series 1-GP engine. Everything looks great!

 

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ah ah not easy at all! Yes this was not my first one, I have a ton of pictures because I used it for a technical thread on a forum, knowing that it was going to be troublesome so I could cover every part in depth...little did I know it was going to be (by far) the worst I've ever worked on or even seen/heard about. Absolutely nothing was straight, even had factory blunders! 

Setting the gearing is a major pain, you just need some zen mindset, build, torque down, measure, disassemble, reassemble again etc until you get the clearance right...all 3 of them...using a strip of paper is the only method I know to measure it, gears must dig into it and leave an impression without cutting it.

 

For "DISPLAY NAME"

Here below is the list of tools I think are essential for an LD...you really don't want to rig anything up believe me...you may get lucky but the risk is just too high.

 

(Not pictured) Set of metric wrenches and 1/2" impact sockets (also used to press bearings and bushings)

(Not pictured) Hydraulic press (or find a neighbor/mechanic that will allow you to use it) 

 

PICTURED

Impact driver with misc inserts - For the bearing retention flanges and various frozen fasteners

3 Jaw puller (clutch)

Clutch holding tool (made with used clutch plate)

Flywheel holder

Flywheel extractor

14mm hex bit (for the inspection plugs)

19mm socket turned down on the OD (for fitting into the flywheel)

Adjustable C-spanner (to undo the exhaust)

Rear hub puller

Fuel tank nut tool (you can also use a punch or c spanner but that's risky)

Self-built silentbloc extraction/installation tool (optional, only if you need to do that specific job)

Mag flange puller 

Set of punches and drifts

Heat gun (for bearing/bushing installation).

Bearing grease packer (for the left crank bearing)

Manual grease gun (for the left crank bearing)

 

Torsion bar tool (second picture)

Clutch compressor tool (you can also build one yourself using a steering wheel puller and a couple of long bolts)

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1 hour ago, Anthony-ADX said:

Wow! That’s a lot of good work. Outstanding!
Your work and photos are getting me hyped on starting back working on my LD project.
You said, This is not my first restoration? Do you have links to your other restoration projects.
I would really like to see them, especially the LD projects.
Great work dude!

Thanks! Unfortunately most of the stuff I did was before the digital camera era,when I was 14 to 19 years old (high school). I worked on some Lambrettas and few V***a. I think I might have some printed pictures back in Italy.Then recently I moved into motorcycles and a Vette. When I moved to US, I started working on Lambrettas again, this LD is actually my first restoration on this side of the ocean and I'm building it for my wife. It's not easy for me, don't have any contacts here in Ft Worth for machining, sandblasting etc...hopefully we'll be able to share some info here in the forum.

As far as Lambrettas are concerned now I own only 2 of them, I'm planning to add 2 more and finally consolidate all the vehicles under one roof soon! Back in the 90s in Italy they were considered old junk, the new plastic scoots were all the rage...I had friends thrashing SXs in the fields for fun..crazy! So I never held on to them, I could have amassed a small collection by now.

I see you live closeby..if you happen to be around let me know and we can meet!

Anyways here below are some pics of my work, all of them are completed projects except the LUI, still waiting for me to come back and complete it.

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22 hours ago, DISPLAY NAME said:

Yes full rebuild, the gearbox is jumping out of first mostly, but there are other issues and I know how I am...

i really like this bike and feel it's worth doing the motor up properly. Also after looking at what you started with I feel lucky.

i will need that list of special tools. I've already made myself a flywheel holder, flywheel nut socket, and puller. 

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was this Rob Devlin's bike?

 

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7 hours ago, Josh Snow said:

was this Rob Devlin's bike?

 

Hi Josh, I'm not sure...the guy I got it from was just using it for furniture for a few years. He didn't know much.

im pretty sure it got restored around 95 it's well done mostly original down to rubber and hardwhere. 

Is Rob on here? I would enjoy any history on the bike. Opening the motor soon for some work.

best

Todd

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This thread is incredible.  Fantastic work!

 

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Thanks! Well, in the last few days I've figured out the panel alignment issues so I changed gears to polishing/preparing the small bits.

Here below a before and after of the fork link covers...tomorrow I will finish few more bits and focus on the chrome trim

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..speaking of chrome trim...I'm still debating whether or not I should install it..but in the meantime I'm test-fitting it to make sure I minimize the paint damage upon installation.

This is the Cuppini chrome trim. These are great because they don't require trimming the lip, but...they are not perfect. 

Do you guys know a safe way to form/bend the trim without damaging it? It's too tight in the corners (angle needs to be widened at the top) and in certain areas the lips are too tight or too wide. 

Did anybody try to bend it in place with success?

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..more precision work...I just can't get myself to work on the body...so I killed time progressing in a couple of areas..

First of all I fixed the advance problem. Apperently, on very few cases, the factory machined the flywheel key in the wrong position. Very rare, but when it happens it's a real pain. I couldn't get the advance below 32 degress with the electronic, 36 with  points. It was so high that even grinding the slots was not an option.

So I proceeded with measuring, cutting the slots, used a gig to center them in the new position, had them reweld by a pro and I then ground the welds flat. A real pain but totally worth it, now I got 25 degrees right in the center of the slots

 

 

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..then I've put in the new for link bushings...I'm really running out of side projects...I guess I'll just give up and tackle the body then.

A small suggestion...I've seen so many of these covers butchered by guys that tried brute force to extract them by grinding/chiseling or installing them with hammers or presses...there is only 1 way to do it right, and it's also effortless!

To remove: sandwich them in two pieces of wood. Heat up at around 250 degrees. While holding it between the wood pieces, tap them on the floor  or on another hard surface and the bushing will just fall by gravity

Install: set the cover perfectly flat, heat the aluminum and then simply drop the bushing it in square. It should fall in by gravity and seat perfectly

 

It's best to remove them prior to polishing and installing them after you are done with all the grinding,polishing and cleaning.

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