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k-dog

Seriously on pricing...

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Ok this isn’t meant to be a comedy post but I think this is long past due.

Seeing how the internet has really screwed us and helped us I just struggle with Lambretta pricing I see.

So let me lay this out:  Most of us pop onto ebay and craigslist 1st thing in the morning or sometimes a few times a day to check out what Lambettas are coming up. It being 2013 (and for the last 10 years) this is our 1st method to find Lambrettas for most.  For me it’s curiosity to see what’s out there – I got most of what I have before stuff really jumped up in price. Occasionally it leads to an actual purchase but most of us just look. I know that now even on Criagslist just because you’re the ONLY  Lambretta man in town and it so happens that  someone in YOUR town is selling a Lambretta – nowadays your screwed – you probably won’t get it because  the “internet  hawks” are all over Craigslist and already called, deal is made with a dude states away. Kinda of a bummer, I know on Ebay anyone anywhere can win an auction, craigslist has gotten that way too.  You’re competing with a person you’ll never meet in B.F.E.  Whats nuts is on Ebay -seems like people are paying way way  too much in these bidding wars just to say they “won” & in the true end have paid  an arm and a leg for an average scooter. 

Man” back in the day” physical swap meets, junkyards, penny saver flier, and word of mouth were how you got a scooter.  If you rode around your town and you were “that scooter guy” – people would say “hey man I have one of those in my shed”  BAM and there you have it – you just scored a Lambretta. It’s like now people feel that anything they have is GOLD and they are like “I saw this on TV- this is worth a fortune”. 

There is still sensibility out there; I think swap meets are a good outlet because if a guy hauled a trailer load of junk out – I think the intention of attending a meet is to sell it.  Plus your audience that goes to a meet knows the worth – so these are still pretty good.   Buying from other scooter guys is usually pretty good because we all know what’s what.  It’s the un-informed sellers and buyers that are making it crazy. Not many sound Lambretta fans will overpay and bow out of ebay craziness before it goes too high, It just a shame that it even goes to that level of price elevation.

It’s nice to know my LI could be worth a pretty penny – I don’t wouldn’t rip someone off when it’s selling time.  Sure we want to buy a scooter and when we sell it now or later ya want to make some money. But for everyone in the scooter community real and fair prices keeps it at level of reality. 

I have come to accept an SX200 or TV200 is priceless to some and these are anyone's  guess on cost  depending on shape and  peoples cash flow.  I get it – the holy grails. But and LI S3 for $1900 seems a bit excessive – unless there was one hulluva reason ( dealer special, accessories,  rare model,  whatever). But if this is gonna be the new pricing for Lambrettas  - someone help me pick my jaw up off the floor.

The internet is great and I have found scooters here but , now I am just really noticing a spike in prices lately . Don’t get me wrong deals still happen – ya just really gotta work harder at it AND have some luck.  But I don’t doubt that there is that local old dude with a barn full of scooter out there for all of us, but when you find him be quick!!!

 

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I honestly do not think that was an unfair price.

 

A bit high... but there was completion. (That is what the auction is all about)

 

$1500 is what friends here in Canada have paid for something in similar original condition without any questions.

They are only really worth what someone will pay for them... and in this case someone was willing to pay even MORE than $1900. US.

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Don't get me wrong if a guy is a Lambretta enthusiast  or a shop and picks up a scooter fixes it and goes- "OK time in labor, parts, and actual purchase" and the price seems high that's usually ok  because all the work is done, and you are supporting a hobby/ enthusiast-  but high prices for ordinary average LI's from Ebay or craigs  seems out of the realm. Obviously Shops and Lambretta community people keep it fair because they have too - it's reputation and business.  But some dude happens to own a Lambretta and wants Pawn Stars prices... no way!

 

Again RARE and unusual fetch  high prices. I guess some ebayer doesn't think like a Lambretta/scooter community person. They just want the most $$ they can get.

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I used that LI that was discussed it the above thread.

 

I am not really on about price I guess . People will pay what they will - that's on them and that's fine whatever.   I just miss the "hunt" and  in 2013 the internet and craigslist alerts is what it's all about... I like the "dig" and the "hunt" and it's easy to just see a seller when it's  you and the locals not everyone...ahh maybe I am getting old school and I gotta accept?!

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I don't get why a serial # can bring high cash offers

 

SX or TV

 

rare is rare but I don't care

each to their own I guess

 

paint it gold flake, chrome it out and add 20 mirrors so you can look at your self 

:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

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I think Scooterist in the USA are lucky, we can still get good buys. Look at the prices in Europe, nothing's cheap over there.

And Spiderwebb, you're right. Personally, I don't see the fascination with Indian Lammys, but I think it's cool that you and a few others enjoy the SIL products. I'm all about the rare stuff, SX, TV's, accessories, etc. but I'm more of a collector than a daily rider. The vintage Italian scooters tie in nicely with my mid-century / Tiki lifestyle.

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I think Scooterist in the USA are lucky, we can still get good buys. Look at the prices in Europe, nothing's cheap over there.

And Spiderwebb, you're right. Personally, I don't see the fascination with Indian Lammys, but I think it's cool that you and a few others enjoy the SIL products. I'm all about the rare stuff, SX, TV's, accessories, etc. but I'm more of a collector than a daily rider. The vintage Italian scooters tie in nicely with my mid-century / Tiki lifestyle.

 

Rudy  I was informed of what you were saying last night.  That Europe is thru the roof on prices an all vintage- V3$p@ & Lambretta, Lambrettas especially!  I know from talking with the European guys over the years it's always been expensive but it going  really really expensive - an LI project is $2K allday long.

And since all the SX & TV are gone  the LI is all that left, once those are gone form Italy, we'll see lot's of European buyers coming over here looking in the USA eventually.  Hang on to what ya got- there were only so many made....once they are gone thats it,  to re-buy in 10 years ya might need a small loan from the bank.  I dunno if we are at that point yet of sky-high prices, but people need to be fair on pricing while we still have it good over here. Time will tell

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I went to check out a Serveta 150, he knew nothing about the Lambretta, but had called a local shop. They told him if they rebuild the motor for him, he can get up to $4000 for the scoot, he was asking $2000 For a non running scoot. This has been one way people get an idea to price so high.

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The internet has made everything too immediate, but that's the future present we live in. Kind of sucks, but what can you do? Today, the 1980's are more distant than the 1960s were in the '80's. If that makes any sense.

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There's also the bit of reality that goes like this: I can buy far fewer loaves of bread for the pay that I get than I could 10, 20, 30 years ago. The system has made most of us poor as incomes haven't kept pace with inflation.

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What Kevin said. It's like in vintage car scenes. VW Buses are a good example. Once the Splittys were all picked over and priced to the moon prices on early Bay Windows started creeping up. Once those were picked over and priced up, late (post-1971) Bay Window prices started creeping up. Then early Vanagons and eventually late Vanagons.

 

The same cycle has happened or is in the process with a variety of marques of cars and motorbikes. It's party due to the ease of access via the internet. It's also due to dealers/shops cashing in on the "vintage cool" movement of the past ten years. Either way, it's coming to a head; In a few more years only the rich and well-to-do will be able to afford a mediocre vintage vehicle.

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It seems Lammys bring big money in the south (smaller dealer network). I have the Jet on the for side. I know I can sale it fast but I cant afford to replace with something else. Finding bikes on CL use to be fun but calling about them, the sellers says I got offer from Cali. I say good luck and hope they enjoy their bike. I just wish this would happen with V3$p@ P's. Then I would get PAID. 

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Only a few years ago, well, it seems that now, I was curbside doing a little degreasing on the street racer (mainly just spraying off the built up oil on the bottom of the crankcase with carb or brake cleaner). A woman driving a van stopped, rolled down her window and said to me, "Can I buy that scooter?" to which I replied, "No, sorry, it's not for sale". She persisted, "Why not? Sell it to me! How fast does it go? How much you want for that?"

 

I told her that she didn't want to buy my scooter, because it's old and Italian and you have to work on it, like a mechanic, every day, that it's in fact a piece of shit that always breaks down and costs a fortune to repair and for every day that it's ridden there were two days that I worked on it. I also told her it only got up to 30 mph. I suggested she buy a big Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha scooter and get something that was made well and was high quality. She thanked me for my advice and drove off, and I hope I put her off Lambrettas for good. Come to think of it, almost everything I told her was true.

 

I and my fellow lovers of Lambretta have spent the last two and half decades (in my case) talking up Lambretta, how they are better than V3$p@, how they are "The Worlds Finest Scooter", how they are the coolest thing on two wheels, how they're the Ferrari of scooters, always trying to convert others to the cause. Well, it worked. All too well (no offense to any greenhorns of the last 15 years). Now, whenever anyone asks about my scooter I tell them the same things I told the woman in my story. I'm trying to atone for my past sins.

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Just supply and demand in action at any given point in time.  Can change in a flash, but  Lambretta popularity and ownership has been growing in the US,  I know its grown alot up this way, plus they are being seen more, and on TV, commercials, Pickers.....etc.

 

The internet I believe has been a far greater contributor to the hobby than a negative.  So much easier to locate rare parts, accessories, advice, and its grown the value of the machines upward, and given them greater credibility.  

 

The bad news is yes they are more valuable now, the good news is so is yours as well.

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Back in the early 1990's I was offered a very nice and original one owner VW sub-hatch camper found in big bear California.  The price was $4500.00 and man was it complete with both tents and all the goods!  I couldn't afford it, but man I really wanted it.  again a few years later i was at DMV getting a Lambretta inspected and the level two inspector recognized me from the VW scene and asked me over to his house as he was going to sell his 356 speedster Porsche that he had bought brand new.  went over and looked at it and he said i had first dibs because he liked me and my passion for the old cars, asking price was $42K.  Price at the time was very high and I had to pass on it even though i wanted it.  again later I was contacted by an old guy selling his original bought new 1950 Oldsmobile woody wagon that I must have left 1000 notes on the windshield, he had owned it from new and the DMV had just taken his license away so he was going to sell it and was offering me first option to buy it because of my persistent notes.  His neighbor told him he could sell it for $60K at Barrett Jackson so yet again I had to gracefully pass even though i wanted it too.  So many times i didn't get the car I really would have enjoyed and may still own today (those who know me also know I rarely sell my personal cars and scooters even though i am offered quite often to sell for market value).  Now that bus is selling for $50K - $100K, the 356 would sell for $110K - $250K, and that Olds $60K - $100K plus.  All original unrestored cars!  I've watched this happening for a long time coming, now it has started with our beloved scooters.  I'm not going to complain about it, but rather I have learned from this and if a scooter i want comes up for sale and I have the means and the ability via ebay or craigslist to buy it, I'm going to!  I miss those old days of the backyard deal and occasionally they still turn up like that, but I've missed too many diamonds because I was on a coal budget, now I can afford the occasional diamond and Im going to buy it and enjoy it until that day comes when I may have to reluctantly sell it to pay the mortgage like when I sold my SX200 to Monarch scooters.  The prices are not going to go down anytime soon so embrace it, we are paying less than the rest of the world except maybe asia for scooters so why are we complaining?  It wont be long before they come over here to buy them from us just like when the Japanese swarmed our VW shows buying every car in sight in the late 1980's! Otherwise you could start collecting P200's as those are never going to be worth more, just less as time goes on...  

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Just remember: This present conversation didn't start because of the rarest of the rare. It started because some goofball bought an Li150 with a locked-up engine for nearly $2000.

All the cars in EricE's post are premium opportunities. That Li150 is not in such a category.

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Ahh, thw good old days. When stuff was cheap and you could get a good bike for almost nothing, or a VW. But that was a while ago and time has kept moving on. Some of those deals wound up in the trash, buried in ditches, or used as makeshift septic tanks.

 

I cringed when I heard a friend tell me how as kids they would thrash old NYPD Lambrettas and torch them or crash them into a ditch on a vacant lot. Or of an ex-girlfriend telling me how a neighbor down the street buried 2 splitties in his back yard because he didn't want to spring for a real septic tank. That was the time these were plentiful, and the good ones were kept, and the marginal ones were for parts or scrapped.

 

Fast forward to today and the info age, grandpa has a bike in the garage you never saw him ride it, or just don't care about old stuff - you either whip out your smart phone and call the junk company or look up what that bike is, or remember it from a show where two guys scam old people out of valuable antiques. "I could get rich too!" You think as dollar signs fill your eyes - your job sucks, no pay raise in years, mortgaged to the hilt, bills out the wazoo, and here you think you have a gold mine.

 

I love cheap stuff too, but I can see how things are. I have my bikes, and my VW's too.

 

I know how I'll have to fund my retirement - or scrape by if the bills get  too high.

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Ahh, thw good old days. When stuff was cheap and you could get a good bike for almost nothing, or a VW. But that was a while ago and time has kept moving on. Some of those deals wound up in the trash, buried in ditches, or used as makeshift septic tanks.

 

Yep, I remember walking up to peoples houses and asking about their old parked non-working VW's, One guy sold me one for 15.00, and 2 others just told us to take them. The one I paid the most for was my notchback, and it was a whopping 750.00.

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I guess gotta face it, Lambrettas are desirable and  it comes down to your comfortability on price.  How much is it worth to you? If ya want it and can afford it  you can't be cheap or slow. If your heart or wallent tells ya no then you just wont attempt to make a serious go at a scooter that's up for grabs.  And if ya know a stinker of a deal - you won't waste your time.

As far as the internet being a factor-  it sure does help find the parts and info after you land your score.

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To put things into perspective... that Li... what are it's pars worth?

 

Legshield can sell for $250-300 (I just paid $300 for a chrome ring leggy in good shape)

 

Headset top and botton and all the bits with headlight etc $200?

Both Side Panels  with handles  $200-300?

 

Floor Boards  $125 for the pair if in decent shape. (even rough ones sell at $50-60 ea now)

 

Forks with links and front hub easily $150 - $200

 

Seats (A bench seat with a cover... $125-150) Two Singles my guess is about the same

 

Engine... it's going to sell for $300-500 for a 150 engine.

 

Gas tank and straps $75-100

 

Front Fender $65-85 maybe even more

Li Horn Cast  $85-100

That's close to if not over the selling price Kieran.

If it had a title... What's that worth?

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