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Kytronic Smart Booster 2

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Considering trying out one of these, but looking to get some real world feedback from someone who runs this new model or the original Kytronic.  I understand the theory behind variable ignition and the potential benefits, but would like to hear from someone who has actually reaped the touted benefit of increased power/acceleration from the Kytronic.

 

I have what I suppose you'd consider a moderately tuned setup...Jet 200, PHBL 24, BGM Clubman exhaust, full BGM electronic ignition (Stator, Flywheel, CDI, Rectifier).  Been watching the product since the first one came out, but decided to get used to my setup as-is before changing anything up. Was never really interested in the "spark booster" feature of the Kytronic (which apparently has been removed from the SB2), as I'm pretty sure my spark is more than strong enough.  But the other supposed benefits are enticing.

 

Anyone rocking one?

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Side question...

Why can't anyone just swap out the CDI they have with a variable one..?

Seems a better idea than adding on these boosters/ gizmos anyway.

Thoughts..?

My Casa CDI is the same one that is on V esaptronic kit. Same curve.

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I have added one to the other make of scooter, It really helped out the bottom end which was lacking on a pretty highly tuned engine. The added bonus which I didn't expect was how much cooler the bike now runs on the freeway because of the retarded timing in higher revs. I plan on adding one to my Lambretta and to my smallframe street racer. I like the fact that the unit is adjustable, and have played around with different settings, you can set it to retard later for street riding, the earlier for touring/ freeway driving to keep it cool.

You cannot just add a casa coil to a Ducati type system like the bgm or SIL ignitions, they are completely different. The casa and V3$p@tronic are the same thing though and interchangable with each other for parts.

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That's cool that you found it to be effective. Maybe a dumb question, but how do you know your bike is running cooler on the interstate? By the way it performs, or does the whole bike noticeably not get as hot?

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I run a cylinder head temp guage. 1 was surprised how cool it was running

 

 

As CHT goes down the EGT will go up. Something to keep in mind. Ideally you have both sensors but it's not always practical.

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Side question...

Why can't anyone just swap out the CDI they have with a variable one..?

Seems a better idea than adding on these boosters/ gizmos anyway.

Thoughts..?

 

Like a Kheper?

 

One of the best things I've fitted to a Lambretta in recent memory. Programmable. Quality EU-made components. Excellent aftermarket support. Reasonably priced (€110). 

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So no one knows of anyone running a Kytronic on a Lammy? Would have thought they'd gained more traction than that if they truly do what they claim.

Anyone, anyone? Beuler?

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Good to know about the Kheper, but the one thing that strikes me as a shortcoming as compared to the Kytronic, is that there is no switch on the unit to quickly/easily change between curve modes or bypass mode. Seems like you have to connect it to a laptop every time you want to change the curve setting?

For someone who is more technical with engines than I am, I'm sure the ability to draw your own custom curve with the Kheper is attractive. But I really can't see myself even knowing how to figure out if I need a custom curve that the Kytronic doesn't already have. For me, in this case I'd lean toward ease of use over the ability to customize it.

Am I missing something, or does that make sense?

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I know there are folks running them, I have been waiting for them to respond as I don't have a lot of run time on mine, yet. Maybe enough said is that the MBD tech site is very positive on them. Easier starts, better power and cooler running...

That Kheper also looks like a great unit. I would not be concerned about ease of swapping curves as you pretty much want one curve for a given motor setup. The idea of the fully programmable is interesting because it appears you can not only adjust but also set your timing with it meaning no more stator and flywheel monkeying...

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Gotcha. Have read all the good stuff online, hopefully some folks will chime in soon with 1st person testimonials.

Interesting about the ability to set the timing with the Kheper. So, whereas with the Kytronic, you have to physically move the stator to get to a static 24 or 27 TDC before using it, with the Kheper that would be done electronically? That would be pretty sweet to not have to take the flywheel off to adjust your static timing!

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I don't have first hand experience with them, but from their website, it appears so. Might just be wishful thinking, tho...

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Regarding the one curve per motor idea, I thought I'd read several discussions about how you'd ideally have a different curve for wide open freeway riding versus puttering around in town with lots of stop lights. Like the curve that could give you more performance in one scenario could lead to overheating in the other...

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I factor that out in my use, I am not looking for the ultimate in power (don't feel I need that extra small percentage on top of what already getting) and would probably forget to change it one day... So running with a more conservative tune works for me...

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Makes sense to me. That is likely how I'd want to approach it too.

If anyone else out there has any experience to share either with a Kytronic or a Kheper, I'd love to hear it! TIA.

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I had a first gen one hooked up for awhile, strobed it, worked fine, but didn't really notice a change in power down low or better starting. I took it off after about a month and its sitting in a box somewhere

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Interesting. Makes me wonder it its benefits are a bit overhyped, and perhaps its praise has a bit of placebo effect going on.

Did you spend a decent amount of time testing out different curves, or pick the one that made he most sense for you?

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I had the same concern! Mainly will an old two stroke benefit from this type of technology... I bought based on modern motor control all having something similar and figuring engineers wouldn't do it if there wasn't some benefit. Maybe that benefit is masked or even muted in our old motors, but hopefully there. Would be interesting to see a detailed analysis...

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I had a KyTronic on my RT225 after it was first built. I was having some performance problems so I took it off for troubleshooting. Turns out the stator had a loose wire so I swapped in a tested stator and that took care of the problems. I haven't put the KyTronic back on because I haven't felt inclined to pull the flywheel to re-readjust the timing. Because I had a faulty stator to begin with, I didn't get a good feel for the KyTronic's performance changes.

 

As for whether or not you would have to change the timing when installing the Kheper, according to the installation guide the answer is yes, you will have to change it. The unit will only retard the timing, much like the KyTronic. So, you will have to advance the stator to 24 degrees to get the advantages of the unit.

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Good to know about the Kheper. Would have been super cool to have an adjustable static timing feature, or adjustable baseline feature. Do any of the variable ignition systems out there offer that? Or do they all require manual adjustment of the stator?

Seems like for the programmable ones, it would be easy to do and a much wanted feature. It's already retarding the timing, so you could just tell it how much you want your baseline adjusted, and it would add/subtract its curve adjustments on top of that baseline adjustment number.

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The original Kytronik Smart Booster wasn't compatible with all CDI's. I believe they required an original Ducati CDI. Also, plugging the unit directly into the CDI was problematic as vibrations could sometimes make the unit loose contact. The Smart Booster 2 is mounted separate to the CDI and wired to it with normal spade connectors. Kytronik has also released a new electronic filter which when run with the Smart Booster solves compatibility problems and supposedly cures AFR flywheel stutter problems at high RPM.

 

Variable ignition timing is certainly very useful. It won't give more power but it can help your engine run better in town and run cooler on long, high RPM journeys. My street racer is static timing set at 17 degrees Before Top Dead Center. It's a good all around timing. However, at high RPM it would run cooler at, say, 15 degrees BTDC with only a slight loss of power. And on a long journey, cooler is better. At low RPM on a tuned engine like mine, a more advanced timing would help to clean up performance. The Kytronik Smart Booster has selectable curves mapped for vintage scooter riders.

 

There are several variable timing add-on boxes on the market and at least two variable timing CDIs. One is the Kheper and the other is by Readspeed. Chiselspeed has a programmable variable timing add-on box, the Kheper is programmable, and Kytronik is working on a programmable Smart Booster. I don't expect to carry a laptop around with me on tour, so I would prefer user selectable switches or a dial like on the Kytronik. And of course there is also the Varitronic.

 

These variable timing boxes and CDIs are used by a growing number of British scooterists as they tend to cover a lot of miles  Feb - October and many do much of that on motorways. You won't get more power from variable timing, but you might get a smoother running scooter that gets better fuel economy and maybe produces less heat at speed.

 

MB's tech manual is very informative and mentions that you do need to rejet your carburetor after setting up variable timing.

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Thanks for the detailed info GP Kevo, very helpful. Currently I am not going on long high-rpm rides very frequently. I'm also pretty happy with the way my Dellorto 24 and BGM ignition are dialed in, and my bike runs really smoothly from idle all the way up to top end. So from what you are saying, it sounds like I should probably just leave my set up alone for now. If we were talking about more power/acceleration, I would definitely be more tempted to go variable.

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Having had a closer look at the Kheper CDI I'm leaning more towards that. I would feel comfortable editing an ignition curve for my engine, although I think it would look much the same as one of the curves already mapped for the Smart Booster 2. However, for any user who isn't clear about ignition timing and how it works and what is appropriate for his engine and the way he rides his scooter, a programmable ignition could open a Pandora's box of trouble. But for those who do know what they are doing, the Kheper is the most elegant solution I've yet seen. But, I'd still carry a spare one or a spare Ducati CDI and all the tools needed to remove the flywheel and reset the timing back to static.

 

The Kheper comes with baseline curves that you can use or you can edit these to your machine. Eden has been using one on his touring Lambretta and has made a video with a roll on in 4th gear that shows the temps of his engine. He gives some info about his timing curve at the beginning of the video.

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Having had a closer look at the Kheper CDI I'm leaning more towards that. I would feel comfortable editing an ignition curve for my engine,

 

If I can do it, anyone can!  :D

 

As I said earlier in this thread, a Kheper is one of the best things I've fitted to a Lambretta in recent memory. 

 

On the topic of ignition curves, below is a a comparison of a Varitronic's published curve and what was actually measured, courtesy of good friend. 

 

16459620169_23757718cb_z.jpg

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If I can do it, anyone can!  :D

 

As I said earlier in this thread, a Kheper is one of the best things I've fitted to a Lambretta in recent memory. 

 

 

Best, as in a super high quality part?  Or best as in gives you significant benefits?  Do you feel it's changed your performance significantly?

 

Interesting about the Variatronic published/measured values.  Make me wonder if all variable timing systems would actually measure out that way.  There is always some shift between theoretical values and applied/actual values.

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